In this episode from Spring 2024, Dr. Dominic Corva and students Kaiden Chapman and Luke Feegel sit with Dr. Whitney Ogle to talk about cannabis, sports, and exercise. Dr. Ogle is the Co-Director of the Humboldt Institute for Interdiscplinary Marijuana Research as well as the host of the Exploring Cannabis and Exericse Podcast. They talk about the future of cannabis research in this field as well as a future class at Cal Poly Humboldt in the Cannabis Studies program.
Subsistence Crop S1E6: Dr. Whitney Ogle Interview Transcript
Dominic Corva 0:18
Okay, so today on subsistence crop, the podcast of the cannabis Studies program at Cal Poly Humboldt. I am super excited to have Dr. Whitney Ogle, my co director for the Humboldt Institute for interdisciplinary marijuana research
Kaiden Chapman 0:31
hey Whitney
Whitney Ogle 0:32
Hi,
Dominic Corva 0:33
and we’ve got Kaid and Luke also on the mic. And we will be asking her questions. And hopefully she’ll also be telling us a little bit about the class she’s been in the process of designing and offering here around cannabis and exercise and sport.
Whitney Ogle 0:49
Yes.
Dominic Corva 0:50
So let’s, let’s take it away, maybe starting off with with that, like, where are you at in that process? Whitney? And what can we what can we expect to see it on the on the in the catalog,
Whitney Ogle 1:00
hopefully as soon as possible. But yeah, I’m a professor in Kinesiology at Cal Poly humboldt. And my area of research is how people use cannabis with sport and exercise. And so I’m building a research team right now of people who are interested in that kind of work. But I’ve been I’ve had the opportunity to speak at conferences in Exercise Science conferences, and built my community of Exercise Science, researchers. And so we’re all looking at different things. And so I love compiling all that information and being able to make it understandable and meaningful to more people than just fellow academics. So I’m really excited to teach a class where we get to talk about cannabis and exercise, how it relates to sport policy as well. And I think that’s where our kind of worlds overlap is how cannabis relates to policy. Now, as it’s one thing to know information about how cannabis impacts performance, but if we know the information, then we can start to change sport policy around how we regulate cannabis use in athletes.
Dominic Corva 2:02
And a lot of that is actually kind of that’s interesting, because a lot of sports already have kind of an informal set of practices and positions with relationship to cannabis consumption. And so actually, it was kind of hoping maybe we could talk about like the relationship between them, mixed martial arts and cannabis consumption. So we have actually one of our students who is an MMA performer and Luke, and that you might have a question for Whitney. Yeah.
Luke Feegel 2:36
So I’ve been, I consider myself a mixed martial artist, and I’m mainly focused on jujitsu at the moment. It’s the it’s the one I can see myself having the most longevity in and competing in throughout my entire life.
I started jujitsu about a year and a half ago. I was already consuming cannabis. Before then, I’m a medical patient. And jiujitsu I actually didn’t know beforehand. But jujitsu. The community
is very intertwined with the cannabis community. And I’d say that I said that most, most people in that I trained with consume cannabis in some form.
Some of them consume cannabis. While, they are training jujitsu. Not everyone. I’ve gotten mixed opinions on how it affects you. Well, you were actually doing jujitsu. But I think that everybody agrees. It’s very good for the recovery. And very good for the sleep.
Whitney Ogle 4:11
Yeah,
I know, it’s been, I think that there’s a certain level of the Joe Rogan experience because Joe Rogan was the first person who was like in mixed martial arts kind of world that was talking about pairing cannabis with with training. And then there’s all these other is like Joey Diaz, was that there’s some other
Luke Feegel 4:31
yeah,
Whitney Ogle 4:32
there’s like other MMA guys that are like, oh, yeah, we always, you know, like to roll high. And then, and then there’s a whole event. Have you heard of The High Rollers event?
Luke Feegel 4:40
i have
Whitney Ogle 4:41
In Vegas? Yeah, yeah. And so like, there’s this event where people like the purpose is for everyone to get super high for a jujitsu competition.
Luke Feegel 4:51
Yeah.
Whitney Ogle 4:52
And so there’s this really interesting overlap where I don’t think no one that I’m aware of has actually studied needs specifically MMA or jiu jitsu and, and how that how cannabis affects performance of that. I think that just based on a lot of the research in exercise science in general, there tends to be a lot more research on running and cycling that you can do easily in a lab, like most of the that equipment is already in every single exercise physiology lab. And so but I think there’s there’s this really interesting overlap between the two that no one has looked at yet other than just having these anecdotal conversations where and so we were talking about Dupree Stuart, and he’s done. He’s been on my podcast exploring cannabis and exercise twice now, where he first started out talking about how he uses cannabis with training for you know, he’ll use it, he wouldn’t he would have used it before training to like he said, he was like, more creative and had like better ideas and like, has having more fun with it, or to help with pain management, before he was able to even able to get into the gym, and then to use it to help with sleep and also to help with eating because he grew up as a wrestler. And so you because you have to weight cut that you just shut off that part of your brain that tells you I’m hungry. And so he used it for all these different reasons that are super interesting. And then he was on a podcast recently and said that he actually stopped smoking weed because he realized it was impacting his training. And then he ended up really getting massive gains from that. And he did realize that he can really tell now, when people are like when he’s you know, call it rolling, right? When you’re rolling up people. Yeah. And like in the on the mat that he’s like, I can tell when people are high. And like, they’re actually, I thought that I was like more creative. And like, you know, people couldn’t predict my movements, but hes Like, I can see it so quickly. Like they think that they’re being sneaky, but they’re not. And actually, I was like being sloppy. And so. So I think it’s really interesting to have to be able to do a study where you’re looking at different parts of jujitsu performance, and how does cannabis actually impact that? And if it does impact that, does that matter to you? You know, if you if you find out that, you know, maybe I am less accurate or like I get less power into my, I don’t know, whatever here. Well, yeah.
Luke Feegel 7:25
doesn’t get as much drive on your double leg
Whitney Ogle 7:27
Yeah, there we go. Yeah. Then, you know, does that matter? Are you going to change your cannabis use because of that?
Luke Feegel 7:35
I think that personally, I agree. Cannabis does actually inhibit your performance while you’re training. I think that I do feel slower. And I do feel less accurate, less, less quick. But I don’t necessarily think that’s bad.
Whitney Ogle 7:54
Right?
Luke Feegel 7:55
I think that it’s almost like training with a weight vest on
Whitney Ogle 8:00
ooo I like that.
Luke Feegel 8:00
Yeah. And or like, training like in a pool a jello feel sluggish. But it when you were then training when you’re not stoned?
Whitney Ogle 8:14
You think a superpower,
Luke Feegel 8:15
you feel you feel quick,
you’ve totally you can tell the difference?
Whitney Ogle 8:19
wow
Luke Feegel 8:21
And I personally do like to consume cannabis before I train. But the the level of the dose changes quite often.
Whitney Ogle 8:33
Interesting.
So have you figured out different strains that worked better for you, too?
Luke Feegel 8:37
I have not.
Whitney Ogle 8:38
Yeah, that’s that’s the fun
part is I’ve started figuring that out with running where there’s certain strains where I realize we’re, like, kind of walking again, how did I how long I’ve been walking, I thought I was on a run. And then other strains where I am like, dang, I would have run up this hill. And this is awesome. And I just feel so strong with it. And so it’s so there’s so many different variables about cannabis and exercise that it’s like, what variable do we talk about with jujitsu? Like what are we looking at with performance? How do we actually gauge whether cannabis has affected your performance or not? And then from there, now, what do we look at? Do we look at CBD versus THC? Do we look at THC, you know, different terpene profiles? Do we look at percent of THC? Yeah, there’s all these different factors that go into how does cannabis actually affect people’s performance?
Luke Feegel 9:30
Right. Yeah.
Kaiden Chapman 9:33
I think something I’m really interested in is cannabis helping CTE and brain damage from contact sports? And I wanted to know if that’s something we might go into for the class next year upcoming.
Whitney Ogle 9:45
Yeah, that’s definitely something we talked about in the class. I haven’t done any research on that personally. But there was a woman on my podcast named Anna Simons and she is her her Instagram handle
Dominic Corva 9:56
rugby
Whitney Ogle 9:56
Yeah. Rugby she’s a former rugby player. Um, and she is, she’s already committed to donate her brain after she dies to do research, because, yeah, she’s had a lot of concussions. And so I think it’s it’s definitely something that I think is important that we need to talk about in the science world. I haven’t done any of that research personally. But I think it’s really important for a class on cannabis, and sport and exercise, because obviously, it’s a big deal.
Kaiden Chapman 10:24
Yeah, definitely.
Whitney Ogle 10:25
And it’s really interesting to see how the NFL has changed its policies on cannabis use, because there’s a lot of opioid overuse or misuse in, in football players that it’s like, whoa, they’re in a lot of chronic pain. And maybe there’s a better way of dealing with this rather than just going straight to opioids.
Kaiden Chapman 10:46
Yeah. 100%. Do you know if there is even a lot of research around cannabis hoping CTE? Because last time I checked, there wasn’t.
Whitney Ogle 10:52
There’s not much, but it’s kind of similar to anything about cannabis and exercise in general, there’s just not really, there’s way more anecdotes than there are, there is data on it, because it’s just so hard to like, I’ve been trying to figure out how I can do research where I’m like, Okay, can I get people high? And have them do this? And it’s like, no, can I get people high? Have them come like they’re on there? From home, and then they come to campus? And it’s like, no, so I’m still trying to figure out what the those like little loopholes are about how I can get, you know, having Medicate people and do research on them. And so because of these barriers to be able to do research, there’s way less research then the anecdotes suggest, definitely worthwhile to look into. Yeah,
Kaiden Chapman 11:40
I’m really interested in how you got into kinesiology work. And have you always seen cannabis attached to Kinesiology? Or is that something that came?
Dominic Corva 11:51
this is a great question.
Whitney Ogle 11:52
Yeah. Um, yeah, so I, I’m from the Midwest originally, and like, from like, a very conservative area. So cannabis was was superduper not okay, where I grew up. And then when I went to college, and I was a former athlete, I was a swimmer. And so I had swum for years. And I think I started dating like a rock climber in college and would smoke weed with him and go rock climbing. I think that’s where it all kind of started. And, and then I would hear little little things here. And there. I had friends when I was in physical therapy school, where we’d talk about weed. And now like, I wonder if there’s anything about this and, and so I’d have some of those little conversations over the years of all of my years of higher education and as a as a student, and, and I was in graduate school in Indiana, where again, is superduper not legal, but you know, we’d always have these little questions like, oh, one day, can we do you think we should do research on this? You know, when we’re in the lab? Oh, would it be cool if you could do this where someone’s high. And, and so when I saw the job opening at Cal Poly Humboldt, Humboldt State at the time, I was like humboldt and weed. I’ve always associated with things. And so I wonder if I can do that weed research that I’ve been wanting to do and have been talking to my colleagues for years about and have experienced myself with pairing it with running and climbing over the years that, like, I want to do the stuff that that I’ve been thinking about that I know people are talking about, I know people are interested in it. But no one’s actually done their research in like decades. And so when I first started here, like within the first month, I started the first one of the first surveys about how people use cannabis with exercise, because it was one of those things that was kind of bubbling up more and more in the public sphere, I was seeing more and more athletes kind of coming out of the woodworks and saying, oh, yeah, I like you know, pairing it with jujitsu, or whatever. And so I was hearing more of these athletes talking about it, I was like, Alright, I have to start somewhere. Let’s just start out with a survey. I’d never done a survey before. But I was like, we’re doing a survey. And it was funny, because it was that same month that two other labs also started in a similar survey. And so it was like the time had just come for all of us to come together and do really, like just just get the ball, the ball rolling in the direction of being able to do this research. And so we had to start with surveys, because that was all all that our legal teams that our universities were allowing us to do. And then now that sets the stage for us to be able to do more research here on out.
Dominic Corva 14:30
Although I think that your your resuming I think a research agenda that gotten dropped, like in the 70s. I was hoping maybe you could talk to them about that.
Whitney Ogle 14:41
Yeah, totally. So yeah, it was when I was first starting to do that study. I was looking back at alright, what is the research actually say about cannabis and exercise? performance. And so there were some studies from like the late 60s early 70s that were that were they actually had people get high and one of the so there’s a couple interesting things about the way that they were doing that research initially was that first of all, they had everyone’s smoking because that was like the the most common way that people were getting high back then like edibles. They weren’t like even thinking about edibles research at that time. And then they were always and they didn’t control for like, they made sure that people were also like cigarette smokers because then they could they physically knew how to smoke with what was the rationale, but smoking also impacts your lung volume. And so it’s like, Alright, how do we know if it was the cannabis that affects your lung volume, or the fact that we’re all looking at a bunch of cigarette smokers? And then the other thing is that a lot of the research was done on like, 5% thc. And that was that was the highest dosage. And then there was there was maybe like one study from the 80s that was looking at, like 12% thc. But yeah, evil route. 12 years. And finally, maybe I think I think that’s that if I remember correctly. Yeah, it was like that was that was the high dose, it was like high dose 12% and low doses. 5%.
Kaiden Chapman 16:11
Did they say the strains they were giving these people
Whitney Ogle 16:13
no, we dont know Right.
Dominic Corva 16:15
But also like you in general, like the, you know, the the the discourse that the moral panic that’s being raised about how high THC percentages are these days, always repeats the same folk tale. Weed was only 5% until, like, 10 years ago.
Whitney Ogle 16:32
No, right?
Dominic Corva 16:33
We just you know, manifestly false. But in general, there’s so many problems with asserting for certain, the apples and oranges comparison to like weed and how it was tested in the 1970s, for example, and how it’s tested now. But, but certainly, like the double digit THC percentage, is like absent from that moral panic. Like, they were actually like, Yes, we did have that in the 1980s. Can we calm down about just how high THC is getting? Right? Yeah, that’s fascinating.
Whitney Ogle 17:09
Yep. But still fascinated that the 12% was the high end, right. And now not to say that, like, you know, like, I think that I’ve experienced some, like, 16% thc of number 26, Canna country 26 That just like wrecks me, then it’s like, you know, and a 20%. Something else might not really do it for me.
Dominic Corva 17:30
But anything over really actually, to be honest. I think 20% is highly suspect to me, like I think that is it is it is a product of, you know, the need to have a number very high on the package. And so there are a lot of different routes to how that number gets inflated and systematically inflated, especially in states with legal cannabis.
Whitney Ogle 17:52
See, and this is really interesting research where we can have people come in and say, Alright, you get to the choice of less than 20% 20 to 25% thc strain and like a 25 and higher strain. And then have people say how high they got and see if it actually matches with you could you could maybe make it blind where they don’t necessarily know which one they’re in and to say, Oh yeah, I think that was probably a good 28% thc. And it’s like no surprise that was like under 20 Because I think that yeah, there is a certain amount of people who are like, oh, yeah, just give me the highest percent THC. And it’s not a holdout
Kaiden Chapman 18:31
that’s like the most of the buyers.
Whitney Ogle 18:33
Yeah. And then and that’s, you know, a lot of the research that has been done in Colorado with cannabis and exercise. They’re looking at, like CBD strains, THC strains, and then like a CBD to THC, you know, 1to1 and so we’re just barely starting to get into looking at percent THC. And so, you know, a lot of times people have talked about I think that I’ve seen in research that they’ve used strains that are usually like they can easily find them they’re like constantly at the same dispensary that they have a partnership with. So that’s usually what they’re using for research. It’s like, Alright, I know that we can always get I don’t know like I don’t remember the strain is now but most likely these poly hybrids yeah and it’s and that’s the other thing is it’s from Colorado and so Colorado is all indoor and so it’s like Alright, does indoor versus outdoor, you know impact physiology. So oh my gosh so many different really different research ideas and different variables that we need to look at.
Kaiden Chapman 19:35
So going back to when you were interested in college with doing your studies was it mainly like just like the psychoactive this this THC head high or were you guys really aware of other cannabinoids and then as you got older was, were you more focused on other cannabinoids THC weed as a whole
Whitney Ogle 19:54
Yeah, I think was definitely more THC based for sure. That was most of my interest and when we did the when We finally did those surveys of how people use cannabis with exercise. Then most people were saying that they were using high THC strains with with exercise not not necessarily CBD and exercise. And so there was a lot of stuff about, I feel like there’s a lot more like public discourse about CBD and like, oh, CBD is so good for inflammation. And there’s so many different brands that are out there, especially of like topicals that are like this is for athletes to you know, a CBD salve that’s going to make your muscles feel better. And it’s like, I don’t know, maybe. And so I think that there was there’s a lot more hype around CBD and athletic performance than there’s actually research to support it. I’ll have an episode of my podcast coming out soon with a professor from northern Colorado University, and she had people use CBD daily, I think for eight weeks. And there’s no significant difference between the people who are using CBD versus placebo. And so it’s like, especially so a lot of the research has been done with using CBD as a certain percent of their body weight. And a lot of times it’s like 800 milligrams of CBD per serving. And so when you go to the dispensary, you’re finding like a little gummy. That’s 10 milligrams of CBD. So the professors that I talked to were like, basically, if it’s less than 800 is basically just placebo. Like, you’re you’re not really getting anything out of it.
Luke Feegel 21:34
I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any athletic performance enhancement from CBD
Dominic Corva 21:41
and youve tried?
Luke Feegel 21:44
many, many times, because there have definitely been times where don’t necessarily want to be super high. Yeah. But also like, the pain that is caused by wrestling, especially on the knees. Is is can be quite unbearable. And so consuming. Something to ease that is is almost necessary to be able to then go wake up in the morning and train
Whitney Ogle 22:21
see you’re finding more of that relief from THC rather than CBD.
Luke Feegel 22:24
Yeah, yeah, I really tried to stay away from like Advil and Tylenol and stuff like that. And so for a while, I was trying to use like a one to one or a CBD. But I find the only relief is from a THC. But
Whitney Ogle 22:47
yeah, and that’s the other interesting thing too, when you go into the dispensary, and they’re like, oh yes, CBN THC, like all these other cannabinoids that are like, oh, yeah, there’s so much stuff about how CBN is good for sleep. It’s like, I’ve never seen that research.
Kaiden Chapman 23:01
Where’s the research? Yeah, was the research for all these minor cannabinoids. That’s what I wanted. Right?
Whitney Ogle 23:06
And it’s like, maybe it’s real, you know, like anecdotes, you know, maybe like, Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Sure. But if I haven’t seen the research on it, it’s really hard for me to take people seriously, I know that there’s great bud tenders who like really cared and are really doing a good job of trying to understand the products that they’re selling well, but it’s so frustrating to say like, oh, yeah, there’s so there’s so much stuff out there about CBN and sleep and it’s like, there’s just,
Dominic Corva 23:32
wonder, I wonder if there might be some interesting, you know, work to do around landrace genetics from you know, the parts of the world where the plant evolved, because to the extent that there were selection pressures, they were selecting for you know, medicinal properties. The drug properties and medicinal properties overlap, right. But like, as I understand it, like Afghani is like in its natural state more kind of a one to one balanced. Kaids nodding. So I’m back to work often. Man, it’s like, well, if they if they selected for medicinal effects, and we’re looking for what was most broadly therapeutic, then maybe do we have something to learn from that? You know,
Whitney Ogle 24:24
that’d be awesome to find out. Yeah, because a lot of the research I mean, just talking about sleep in particular, a lot of it has been done with like Epidiolex or you know, just the synthetic you know, cannabinoid medicinal cannabinoids rather than plant cannabis.
Dominic Corva 24:41
isn’t Epidiolex actually botanical medicine. not a Synthetic.
Whitney Ogle 24:47
Not sure it’s from from yeah
Dominic Corva 24:50
Yeah. I think it’s actually a whole plant, extract, extract
Whitney Ogle 24:56
Good, cool,
Dominic Corva 24:57
which is also like actually kind of That’s quite intentional as well. And maybe related to what I said earlier, but at this point like, shit Man, I cannot remember when I began to learn some of the stuff. So it’ll be really interesting in the research to connect over to Jackson, long term evolutionary selection, like they would make sense, or hypothesis, I guess.
Whitney Ogle 25:25
yeah absolutely. Somebody have to find a solid source that is always available that we can begin to have a bunch of people go through like a sleep study or something. But yeah, there’s this, there’s this really interesting app called the tetragram app where you can say what you’ve used, like the the cannabis product that you use, you can like, put in all these other parts about what you know what it is, and then it pings you back like half an hour later and says, like, Alright, how was this experience? And so, because people can now Well, first of all, it can be like, helpful for athletes, where you can maybe find out, you know, not every strain is a five out of five, you know, some strains are not going to be good for exercise, some friends are gonna be great for exercise. And so to be to use that as a as a way to really understand your own cannabis use better. And then also to be able to use it for research purposes, to say, oh, yeah, people who are using whitethorn rose have more, I don’t know, I’m looking at your stickers who are using, like, who are whitethorn rose tend to have, you know, this kind of effect of this on them. Yeah. And so with, with bigger datasets, where people can use, you know, easy digital means to be able to collect data, that might be the best way to be able to find that stuff out. research ideas, idea,
Dominic Corva 26:49
yeah. Sees Yes. So that said, I think there’s a good opportunity, actually, that asked you, you know, where we’re at, relative to like Colorado, in terms of researchers at this university, being able to do the stuff that they’ve been doing.
Whitney Ogle 27:08
Yeah, so thankfully, all of my research colleagues from University of Colorado and Colorado city and northern Colorado, they are all just the greatest people, like the greatest people I’ve met. All of the cannabis and exercise, people who I’ve met have just been some of the best colleagues I’ve ever met in my life. So I’m so happy about that. And so they’ve shared with me the ways that they’ve been able to get around the system a little bit. And so the way that university Colorado does it is that they, the, the university cannot spend money on buying weed. And so they have the participants in the study, buy their own product, and then they get paid. That basically offsets the cost of buying it themselves. And so that’s, that’s the clever way that they’ve gotten around how to pay for the weed for the participants. And then they have partnerships with dispensaries that they have like the, you know, they can go into a specific dispensary. And they say, Alright, are you group A, B, or C, and then they’re given their kind of strain. Then last semester, while I was on sabbatical, I was working with our risk management team and IRB to talk about what can I do on campus? And so I was like, Alright, can I get people at their home to get high and come to campus, they’re like, No. And so one of the things that I can do is, because we have the consumption lounges in Eureka, I can set up a lab in a consumption lounge for a day or whatever, and then do research in over there. So that’s my, that’s my closest way to be able to do that research right now. So right now I’m working on getting that team of undergrad students that are interested in helping me out with that kind of research. And to I’m having a graduate student start with me in the fall, that’s going to be, you know, doing more of this research with me. So now, I’m just like, setting the groundwork to make that all happen. But there’s so much easy research that you could just do in like, a weekend to just like, find out how does it impact your you know, a high jump capacity, like it’s so you can do it so easily. And we just need to just, you know, make it happen. Yeah. At at. And so that’s, that’s really excited to know that opportunity. I’m also running a study right now, it’s in the process of getting IRB approval. And so hopefully that’ll be in the next week, because the study has already sort of ish started so I in my my, in my motor learning class, I have students learn a new skill over four weeks. And so because there was only one student that class and knew how to juggle and having everyone learned how to juggle over the next four weeks, and so each week they collect their data and how many catches they can do with three ball cascade pattern of juggling. And so they’re collecting their data every week anyways. And so I would just send a follow up message after every week and say, All right, what was your average number of catches for the week? And then did you consume cannabis in the last week. So we can see if cannabis impacts motor learning, because no one’s looked,
Dominic Corva 30:21
I have to jump in here because like, I want to endorse Whitney’s ability to teach people how to do motor things. All my life until last fall, I have never been able to hula hoop and I have been given so many different opportunities to try to do that. And basically, we were at the farmers market Arcata’s farm farmers market, I think last fall
Whitney Ogle 30:42
thats your vibe
Dominic Corva 30:43
And you know, there was there were hula hoops around and Whitney’s like, Yeah, we’re gonna hula hoop. And I’m like, okay, you know, just like that. I’m like, I’ve never been able to do this. And it took her like 30 seconds, gave me basic instructions. And like I was doing it, I was Hulu hooping
Whitney Ogle 30:59
he was doing it
Kaiden Chapman 31:00
he was a pro huh
Dominic Corva 31:00
It wasn’t like I could I could have kept going. Wow. Like, it was incredible. So like, I want to endorse Whitney’s ability to like, teach people how to do things with their body. like
Kaiden Chapman 31:11
thats as far out.
Dominic Corva 31:12
She’s good at it.
Whitney Ogle 31:13
Real. Let’s get it. Let’s go to who else is in here. Let’s let’s see a skill test to test your retention of that skill.
Dominic Corva 31:18
Well, we’ll put it in the budget. Yeah, for sure. I love it. Yeah,
Whitney Ogle 31:22
that’s where you can raise money for that day of giving next week.
Dominic Corva 31:27
Yes. And so in case this podcast gets out by next week, but I wouldn’t put it past Mathias, he’s been gotten really fast with this. There’s a day of giving next week. And I guess donations get like matched
Whitney Ogle 31:42
up to $150,000. And there’s like five pages of groups that are asking for money, right? So they’re saying like, try to get people to donate on the day on Wednesday, April 3, April 3, I think. So yeah, to have a bunch of people donate early on in that day. And so then we can get more of a match.
Dominic Corva 32:05
And that’s for the humboldt institute for interdisciplinary marijuana research that Whitney and I are co directors of and, and we’ve been using those funds actually pay for student assistants are in the lab, and Whitney’s gonna be using them for her students assistants. So it directly helps us
Whitney Ogle 32:20
Yeah, it was able to offset funds to be able to get a student out to a conference to present our research at a conference last last semester where we were talking about cannabis use in an autistic community to help unmask and like see stimming as a good thing. And like, let’s let’s just normalize stimming behaviors and the Autistic community. So he was saying that, you know, the student is autistic himself. And so he was like, cannabis helps me unmask and allows me to just stim and like that, let’s just have that be okay. And the student of mine was fairly good at making memes. And so he presented at this cannabis conference, a series of memes that got our point across. So it was just like this very cool.
Kaiden Chapman 33:06
Bet the crowd loved it
Whitney Ogle 33:07
oh the crowd loved it. The crowd loved it. And I was nervous because there was all these people that I really respected in the room who do this like really badass research. And it was like, Oh, God, Angela, Brian’s in the room, Chris Bell’s in the room, you know, Laura stewards that are like, Oh, my gosh, okay. All these people I really respect for their really hardcore research that they do. And I’m like, showing memes. And they loved it. And they’re like, yes! we need to have more of this at conferences, when so? Yeah.
Dominic Corva 33:33
dp you think you can incorporate that in like the class?
Whitney Ogle 33:36
Absolutely. Yeah. And then one of the things that kind of came up with that students presentation, and something that I think about a lot is what holds people back from exercising and like, what, you know, exercise is good for all bodies, all bodies benefit from movement. And so what gets in the way of people wanting to participate in exercise? And yeah, like you’ve pointed to your brain, like it’s your mind. And so yeah, it’s mental health and like, anxiety and when you go to a gym, and it’s overwhelming, and there’s the people at the gym, who know what, what they’re doing, and they’re kind of intimidating. And so I would I want to go into a gym. And so, especially with certain, you know, certain groups of people, I think a lot about the trans community and non binary community, like exercise spaces have not been safe spaces where a lot of them and so how do we make exercise more enjoyable for more people, so that they actually can participate in exercise. And so I like to think so in the class, I would definitely talk about the gender aspect of things, because exercise physiologists love to talk about gender and like sex related and so it’s, I I’m interested in seeing it from how does cannabis impact all of these other factors about just humanity? Yeah,
Dominic Corva 34:54
I want to take that class. I’m Jealous of my students that are gonna get to
Whitney Ogle 34:59
its The class that I would have wanted to take at any point in graduate school, I was in graduate school for the fact that I didn’t have to think about this every single time. I was in graduate school for eight years. And I have three graduate degrees and never once did I talk about I have exercise, Master’s in exercise physiology, doctor, physical therapy, and PhD in human performance. And never once did I learn about cannabis. And so yeah, like, it’s, it’s really blowing up, right? There’s, there’s thankfully more and more people who are doing this research. And so I’m so excited to teach this course because no one’s doing it anywhere else.
Dominic Corva 35:40
So the pilot is the first way to go. Is that gonna happen next year, fall or spring?
Whitney Ogle 35:45
Yeah, I’d love to. Yeah. Okay. Just tell me when and I’m in?
Dominic Corva 35:50
Well, let’s, let’s talk about that sooner rather than later right now. I think it would need to be spring. Yeah. Because of all the stuff for the fall, because it’s already really soured the process. But let’s get on that. Yeah. Okay.
Luke Feegel 36:03
With that. Oh, sorry. With that class. I had a couple questions. Yeah. I was wondering, would there be information and stuff that I could learn in that class I could then use to translate to enhance my own athletic performance with cannabis?
Whitney Ogle 36:22
Yeah, kind of like what I was saying, where, when you when you’re able to gauge how cannabis actually impacts your performance where you can figure out, alright, what kind of data do I need to collect? Like, for example, for me with running, you know, is my is my running? Is my speed the same? When I’m running? Am I able to run the same distance if I’m under the influence of different strains? And so you can figure out, okay, yeah, this strain actually does enhance my running speed or my running distance. But this other strain over here, makes my running speed lower. And I also end up walking a lot. And so then that that can help you figure out like, fine tune those little things where you can figure out exactly what is the best combination for you? Yeah,
Kaiden Chapman 37:10
do you think you could ever see cannabis being like such a physical enhancer that it’s like, then like, looked at as like steroid?
Whitney Ogle 37:21
Probably not. But there was there’s this product called off field. It’s a drink and I had one of the founders on my podcast to talk about why he started it. And you know, the, the subtitle of their drink is movement made happy. They also have edibles. And, and one of the things that is tricky about, you know, any of these, you know, topicals, or edibles where they have other things in them. So how do you know what actually helped you? Was it a cannabis? Or was it all the other it was at the L theanine and the, you know, caffeine, like, you know, those other things? Definitely hip factor performance. So how do we know if it was the cannabis that did that. But that was the only that was the only cannabis product that I’ve used in the last year that I’m like, I wanted to go, go go, I wanted to run hard. And I because I had to stop using a clock when I was exercising me like I just everything turned into data collection, it needed to just enjoy running. And so I wish I actually that was the that was the first time in the like, the last two years where I was like, I wish I had the data. I wish I knew if I was actually running faster or not. But that was the first cannabis product that I’ve used where I’m like, oh, let’s Can I swear? I’m not sure. Like, like, let’s fucking go. It’s just like, Okay, let’s do this. I was psyched on it. And so I don’t I asked my there’s a nutrition professor and I brought the container to her. I was like, tell me, what is it about this product? Like, look at the small print. Tell me what made me so hyped on this? And she was like, I don’t know. Maybe it was the strain. I was like, it’s probably was not the strain. It’s probably something else in it. And so, yeah, it’ll be really interesting.
Luke Feegel 39:13
So, Kaid, I actually have heard of within the MMA community of fighters being suspended. for uh cannabis use because there are claims that it does enhance your performance within specifically mixed martial arts cage fights,
Kaiden Chapman 39:33
and what do they say it enhances?
Luke Feegel 39:35
um so they said that because it reduces pain. You can take more damage, more punches. And that there there is a fighter, Nick Diaz. That yeah,
Whitney Ogle 39:52
that’s yeah, that’s who i was thinking about
Luke Feegel 39:54
He was suspended. They tried to actually spend an indefinitley,
Kaiden Chapman 40:00
wow
Luke Feegel 40:02
when he was younger, for consuming cannabis, or having the level of THC in his system that would suggest he consumed cannabis. The day of if not right before his fights,
Kaiden Chapman 40:17
and their whole thing was that it’s enhancing him.
Luke Feegel 40:19
It’s an enhancer. Yeah, they claimed that it um enhanced him.
Dominic Corva 40:23
well this goes back to the sha’carri Richardson’s.
Whitney Ogle 40:25
Yeah. Yeah. So she made the Olympic trials, she won the Olympic trials in the United States, and then tested positive for cannabis. And so she was not able to actually go to the Olympics a couple of years ago. And so what was interesting was that all the discourse at the time about it was like, Oh, really, does it enhance your ability to bring the potato chips up to your mouth, and it’s like, old, you know, leftover, you know, drug war kind of language about it. But one of the things that when you actually look at sport policy that the world anti doping agency that sets the rules for the Olympics, and a lot of athletic competitions, yes, some sports have their own like individual rules about cannabis. But for any Olympic event, things are on the list of banned substances, if it meets two of three criteria, one if it has the potential to enhance an athlete’s performance, to if it has the ability to harm an athlete, and three if it violates the spirit of sport. So according to the world, anti doping agency, cannabis meets all three criteria. And so it’s on the banned list. When you look closer, though, at the at the rationale. And this is all based on the paper from 2012. With it is from 2012. And so it’s like Alright, there’s actually been more research since then. So we need to update. This is why I get so obsessed about policy like, this is all based on research that was done in before 2012. Like, we need to update this Yeah, but when you look closer at the at the thing about enhancing performance, a lot of it was related to that like decrease a decreases that an athlete stress and can help with inflammation and sleep. And a lot of those things are actually more related to CBD than to THC. And so teach like CBD is fine. Now for athletes, they they now say, proceed with caution because a lot of like, label misuse or like labeling practices can actually make a athlete think that they’re not using THC, but it might show up on a pee test. And so it’s like, alright, we need to be careful about this. But
Kaiden Chapman 42:37
yeah, they’re fine with CBD but not THC.
Whitney Ogle 42:40
Right?
Kaiden Chapman 42:41
Even though it’s just post prohibition. Yeah, that’s just Yeah. And
Luke Feegel 42:44
thankfully within jujitsu, it is an untested sport.
Whitney Ogle 42:48
Right.
Luke Feegel 42:49
So you were able to take. Yeah,
Whitney Ogle 42:53
yeah. Which is nice. And actually, Dominic and I, like I’m so grateful that you brought the surfing heart to me, because one of the the only sport that’s going in the opposite direction is surfing because surfing went from an untested sport. And now because it’s in the Olympics, now they have to go by World anti doping agency rules. And so now there’s more surfers that are actually not consuming cannabis for like the first time ever.
Dominic Corva 43:23
That’s fascinating. What an evolution a jury for a sport that was really started by a bunch of pot smugglers. Yeah, got
Kaiden Chapman 43:33
started by stoners.
Luke Feegel 43:34
yeah ive heard of fighters who don’t actually want to compete at the highest level for the largest organizations, because they’d have to be tested by USADA and USADA wont let them consume as much Canabis
Whitney Ogle 43:55
yeah Exactly. Yeah. So I don’t know. I think it’s, yeah, there’s so many different things that we can cover in that course. Like from just the recreational athlete, you know, how do we get people to enjoy exercise more just from like a day to day person, you know, to then that middle level of athlete of, okay, they’re competing in some things, but maybe not the highest level to then that highest level and then also, like, from a disabled populations as well, like people who have chronic pain, chronic injuries, kind of disabilities, then how can they participate? How can they use cannabis to help them actually tolerate exercise so they can, you know, exercise more? So Well, I mean, different angles,
Dominic Corva 44:38
I really think that this class is going to be a popular popular popular class.
Whitney Ogle 44:42
I think so too,
Dominic Corva 44:43
so let’s let’s get out
Kaiden Chapman 44:45
and get it out there so that everyone can
Whitney Ogle 44:48
Oh totally
Kaiden Chapman 44:48
means that
Dominic Corva 44:49
we are set up now actually, to really be able to get the word out.
Whitney Ogle 44:53
Yeah. And we and I have a bunch of Kinesiology students that are really excited about it. And so they’ll talk to me after class but I don’t have a place to, to, you know, share it with people yet. And so I’m really excited for the class so I can share it with more people.
Luke Feegel 45:06
Yeah. And DOM will that be required course for cannabis majors?
Dominic Corva 45:10
It will be it’ll be an elective
Whitney Ogle 45:15
Yeah, I remember.
Luke Feegel 45:18
I definitely want it. Yeah.
Dominic Corva 45:20
But it’ll be credit for your major. Like, it’s not like it counts for in major. It’s an important thing. So awesome. We’ve been going for a while, actually,
Kaiden Chapman 45:31
fourty five minutes.
Okay,
Whitney Ogle 45:33
I know how that goes. Well, let’s,
Dominic Corva 45:35
let’s wrap it up. If you guys have any final comments, or listen,
Luke Feegel 45:38
I actually, one one last thing, kind of a side note. I swam as well growing up. And I know a lot of swimmers who still swim in college, or had swam in college. And I hear all the time about this swimmer to stoner pipeline and how almost every swimmer that I know has ended up smoking
Dominic Corva 46:06
like phelps
Luke Feegel 46:08
Yeah. And I wondered if you had any thoughts on that.
Whitney Ogle 46:12
I have never heard of that. And it’s blowing my mind. And now I’ve obsessed with it. And I want to talk to you more about it and talk to more swimmers about it now, because that’s fascinating. So kind of sort of ish related. When I was in undergrad, one of the tests you do in exercise physiology is you’re looking at your lung volumes. So one is called your inspiratory reserve capacity. So like how, how much can you take in oxygen, like when you need to take a really deep breath. And it’s usually related to your body size, you know, your lung size, obviously, it’s going to help you get into more air. And I remember I had one of the highest inspiratory reserve capacities of my class, even though I’m like a small person. And I was like, Oh, I bet it’s because of the swimming. And I was like, but also it could be related to bong hits as well. So yeah, I think that’s super interesting. And I was just thinking the other day about because I I quit swimming my after my freshman year of college. And so and that’s right around when I started, like smoking more weed. And so I actually have not really paired cannabis with swimming. It was just something that I just didn’t do. And so I’m really actually excited to try swimming and like getting getting stoned and then swimming. Because, yeah, it’s something I’ve never done, but I use by pair it with all the other exercises I do.
Dominic Corva 47:36
That’s awesome. What a great final question. It’s time for us to wrap it up, though. But thank you so much Whitney, for joining us today. And we’ll see you next time on subsitance crop
Kaiden Chapman 47:45
Thank you.
Whitney Ogle 47:46
Thank you
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